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Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Jazzper-11 Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
I'm just lurking here! =P

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14-07-2015 11:48:52
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AlfaGirl Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Pfff, kan ik het helpen dat ik om de 'new posts' grijze rondjes weg te werken álles moet lezen Tongue

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14-07-2015 14:54:59
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
You can click on the black orb itself to turn it gray.

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
14-07-2015 15:55:33
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(me) Melchior Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
voor classes denk ik aan druids clerics of warlocks, voor een setting heb ik geen voorkeur.

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14-07-2015 16:49:56
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scroipt Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Ik zat zelf weer te denken aan een tank-bard maar shapechange-druid is ook leuk.

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14-07-2015 19:18:04
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Alright, good start. Overview so far is:

Seppe: No preferences
Eelco: Wizard, Bard, Rogue, Paladin
Mel: Druid, Cleric, Warlock
Mark: Bard, (Moon) Druid
Arik: Bard, Paladin, Rogue (but can play anything if need be)
Ot: ?
Tristan: ?

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
14-07-2015 20:09:26
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Let's look at some more classes.


Fighter
A very odd duck that's at once fairly effective and also suffers from a couple of design problems. The core is an average martial combatant, similar to the Barbarian and Paladin. Their special trick is to attack more often than other classes... starting at level 11+. (In theory anyway. Bards have a way of reaching the maximum amount of attacks at level 10 already whereas the Fighter can only do that at level 20.)

The Champion sub-class is the simplest kind of PC you can have, perfect for those who want the system to give them as few things to keep track of as possible. Unfortunately it's also deceptively weak. The main trick is get critical hits more often, but critical hits are by default fairly weak in fifth edition. And the Champion has a slight improvement in quantity of crits but not in terms of quality of crits. Every single other martial combatant, including Clerics of Life, has more powerful crits than Champions. For real.

The Battlemaster has a small pool of special dice which they can use to get bonus damage and trigger special effects. The problem is that you're allowed to select from all maneuvers right away, so you can pick the best ones early. After that you do learn more special maneuvers but they are the ones that didn't make the selection the first time. Spellcasters keep reaching new heights, but Battlemasters keep scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The Eldritch Knight has some minor spellcasting abilities, but being a Fighter/Wizard multiclass can get you both better spellcasting and better special tricks if you do your homework right.

Verdict: the 5e Fighter is like navigating a minefield. Rewarding if you can do it, but with lots of hidden dangers.


Monk
The mystic unarmed combatant. Just like in third edition they have a lot of defensive abilities. They're also fast. But despite making numerous attacks their offense is a bit on the low side. They are also unable to take full advantage of most magic weapons and armor, which can be a problem in a campaign which features those. On the bright side, Monks do learn a lot of different special tricks. They're not as beefy as a Barbarian or as full of magic as spellcasters, but they have a middle-of-the-road versatility to them.

Verdict: Hard to make them powerful, potentially useful as a sixth or seventh member of an adventuring party.


Paladin
Here is one of the big problems with fifth edition: there are six saving throws, one for each ability score. Each class gains bonuses in two of those saving throws. The other four don't improve as you level up, except perhaps by increasing your ability scores. This means that a Wizard with a Strength score of 10 will have a +0 bonus at level 1... and also a +0 bonus at level 20. But the difficulty numbers of saving throws do increase as you level up. All in all you can expect to fail more and more saving throws as you level up.

Enter the Paladin. With a special aura that adds their Charisma bonus to all saving throws made by themselves and allies within range, Paladins are almost mandatory to have around.

On top of that, they hit hard (harder than Fighters), can heal, cast some spells, and possess various special abilities.

Verdict: Mandatory due to a scaling issue in the game's math. Even without that they'd still be a solid class.


Ranger
A big selection of spells and tricks... all of which can be roughly replicated by other classes. Except for their special beast companion, which is simply underpowered. Even the game designers themselves have admitted that the Ranger lacks its own identity right now and they will work on releasing alternative versions of the class in the future.

Verdict: Unless you really love the concept, avoid. They have a few decent abilities but overall they're not as good as the other stuff you could've had instead.

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
15-07-2015 00:29:20
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voh Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(Ik doe hetzelfde als Sabrina, ik lees gewoon alles Tongue)

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15-07-2015 06:46:32
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
The last of the classes.


Rogue
Good at skills, sneak attacks, and various neat tricks. One of their best advantages in this edition is their "Cunning Action" which allows them to take an additional Dash, Disengage, or Hide action every single round. This makes them very mobile and allows them to shoot from ambush (getting sneak attack damage), move to a new spot, and Hide as a bonus action. Round after round after round.

Verdict: A solid class that does exactly what it's mean to do.


Sorcerer
A full spellcaster like a Wizard, but with a slightly different and smaller list of spells they can learn. Their special trick is metamagic, an ability that lets them modify their spells on the fly. It's versatile but not that powerful. All in all the Wizard is simply a bit better.

There are two sub-classes for this class. One of them is dragon magic, which makes them a bit more dragon-ish. The other is Wild Magic. Yes, complete with random and suicidal wild surges just like in the good old days. In other words: I hope you like dragon magic.

Verdict: A decent class that's usually not quite as good as the Wizard.


Warlock
This is a weird arcane class. Almost all of their abilities are at-will or per-short-rest instead of once-per-day like other spellcasters. They don't get the cantrip Eldritch Blast for free but it is their main method of attack, so make sure to select it immediately. The other abilities are decent but require the right play style. Everybody has long rests because you need sleep and hit point recovery. But not every class, situation, or even DM allows frequent short rests (they are 1 hour by default). If you don't have opportunities for short rests, don't play a Warlock. If you only expect to have one or two fights per adventuring day, don't play a Warlock. If you want to have a hundred spell options instead of a handful of magic tricks which you need to creatively use to maximum effect, don't play a Warlock.

Verdict: Solid class in the right circumstances, but can completely fall apart if the group's play style doesn't work with it. The Eldritch Blast attack can be made very powerful though. If you want to play a focused blaster then not much can go wrong.


Wizard
The alpha and the omega. Wizards have the at-will attacks from fourth edition and the problem solving dailies of third edition. Plus, every spell school (there are eight of those) is its own sub-class so you can have tons of different kinds of Wizards now. Things stay somewhat under control thanks to the Concentration mechanics, which states that you can only have one Concentration spell activate at a time. But despite that, Wizards have some of the best spells and best class abilities in the game now. And spell preparation is now the most versatile, forgiving version in D&D yet.

Verdict: Like the Bard and Cleric, almost mandatory because they can be so good.

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
15-07-2015 19:20:02
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
I have been looking at the Wizard. From what I've seen so far fifth is looking good. I like the assumption that low level characters are still more or less in training. Also, it seems that he concentration requirement does away with much of the insane power of high level spell casters that we saw in earlier editions - no spell stacking. Incidentally, it makes wizards a much more valuable (concentration can be disrupted) and softer target. Wizards can no longer take all roles, have a supportive role, and can no longer really protect themselves, which should allow for more cooperative play.

I wonder about counter spelling though. While it seems like a solid system and tactic for spell casters dueling it out, it does not seem much "fun." But I guess we'll see.

I do have a suggestion for the campaign with regard to ability scores. While rolling is a lot of fun, I do not know whether it would be a good idea to have differences between players. Ability scores seem important in 5th. Also, ability scores are relative: whether you experience a high or low scores really depends on the scores of other players. Therefore for each player that has the fun of having a high score there is another player with handicap of having a low score. I would therefore suggest: 1) standard array (average scores); 2) roll as normally, but allow players to take the same array as any other player (high scores); or 3) players roll normally DM selects the worst array and all players use that array (low scores Wink).
(This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 20:22:58 by Tiamat.)
16-07-2015 20:18:52
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(14-07-2015 11:41:59)SageGenesis Wrote:  
(14-07-2015 09:12:19)JLT* Wrote:  Jelte wil een beetje anticipation management doen, met het idee dat de eerste sessie sowieso niet in augustus en waarschijnlijk niet in september zal zijn, dus laten we niet te hard van stapel lopen.

Da's mooi want we kunnen die tijd goed gebruiken om over de opzet to praten. De ervaring leert dat dit soort gesprekken hier nogal langzaam kunnen gaan dus twee of drie maanden komt niet verkeerd uit.

Tot nu toe hebben we "misschien iets als Dark Sun en/of deze MtG settings" maar dat heeft nog niet veel respons. Voor iedereen* die dit leest, laat van je horen. Smile




* Ja, zelfs jij Sabrina. En jij Wolf. En Marcia, en Jasper, en denk maar niet dat ik je niet kan zien Robin. Wink

Qua setting hoeft het van mij geen uitgedachte wereld te zijn. Een organic setting met paar dorpjes een grote stad, een klimaat, misschien een rivier, oceaan, of mountain range lijkt prima. Je kan een setting dan langzaam uitbouwen naarmate de campaign langer loopt. Ik denk dat hier een grote rol voor de DM is weggelegd, waarbij setting en adventure elkaar verrijken.
16-07-2015 20:35:52
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Ok so let's not use the "everybody rolls and takes the lowest" method, yeah? Wink

I do agree that ability scores should be somewhat the same. Standard array is most likely the safest option but I know some of us really dig the gambling aspect of rolls. Maybe take the second or third highest results? The very highest one is probably quite potent. (Although a DM can always compensate by throwing in an extra monster per encounter I guess.)

I absolutely agree that the setting can start sketchy and local, so the DM can expand on it organically over time. But some general idea of the world can be a good start and influence a lot of choices. "This world is like Dark Sun" will result in different character concepts than "this world is like Birthright" or "this world is like Eberron."

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
16-07-2015 22:34:00
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(16-07-2015 22:34:00)SageGenesis Wrote:  Ok so let's not use the "everybody rolls and takes the lowest" method, yeah? Wink

I do agree that ability scores should be somewhat the same. Standard array is most likely the safest option but I know some of us really dig the gambling aspect of rolls. Maybe take the second or third highest results? The very highest one is probably quite potent. (Although a DM can always compensate by throwing in an extra monster per encounter I guess.)

I absolutely agree that the setting can start sketchy and local, so the DM can expand on it organically over time. But some general idea of the world can be a good start and influence a lot of choices. "This world is like Dark Sun" will result in different character concepts than "this world is like Birthright" or "this world is like Eberron."

I do like the gambling aspect of rolls, but I do not like the consequences of imbalance for the entire duration of the campaign. Also, giving players the choice to gamble or not would not resolve this, as the choice to gamble of one player affects all players. Perhaps there are ways to make any differences temporary (say 3 levels to catch up).
16-07-2015 22:56:25
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
There's always going to be some stat imbalance because not all races and classes have the same amount of bonuses. A human Fighter's ability scores go up far more than an elven Wizard's, for example (by +7 total to be exact). Using a catch-up mechanic to diminish those differences goes directly against the intent and balance of the game.

That said, I do agree that everybody getting different randomized scores can be bad and that's why I suggested some alternative. Such as everybody rolling and not taking the best, but maybe second or third best. Or just taking point-buy.

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
16-07-2015 23:19:31
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(16-07-2015 23:19:31)SageGenesis Wrote:  There's always going to be some stat imbalance because not all races and classes have the same amount of bonuses. A human Fighter's ability scores go up far more than an elven Wizard's, for example (by +7 total to be exact). Using a catch-up mechanic to diminish those differences goes directly against the intent and balance of the game.

That said, I do agree that everybody getting different randomized scores can be bad and that's why I suggested some alternative. Such as everybody rolling and not taking the best, but maybe second or third best. Or just taking point-buy.

Any catch-up mechanic should catch up to the base scores only. Class and Race differences are assumed to be at least roughly balanced. That said, I was just thinking out loud, but do feel strongly about base stat equality as the true socialist that I am.
(This post was last modified: 16-07-2015 23:41:52 by Tiamat.)
16-07-2015 23:41:35
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
If catch-up ultimately leads to people having the same base scores, why not just skip the middle man and give people the same base scores straight away?

I'm personally inclined to go with some sort of roll for a simple reason: in fifth, point-buy can't get you a higher score than a 15. (Before racial adjustments.) Rolling 4d6-drop-lowest is actually quite likely to get at least one 16+. The PHB provides both as valid options but in reality they're not quite equivalent. So I'd favor having people roll and then everybody using the same single set. Or give a few options from the sets, removing the unacceptably lowest and highest ones.

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
16-07-2015 23:56:18
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(16-07-2015 23:56:18)SageGenesis Wrote:  If catch-up ultimately leads to people having the same base scores, why not just skip the middle man and give people the same base scores straight away?

I'm personally inclined to go with some sort of roll for a simple reason: in fifth, point-buy can't get you a higher score than a 15. (Before racial adjustments.) Rolling 4d6-drop-lowest is actually quite likely to get at least one 16+. The PHB provides both as valid options but in reality they're not quite equivalent. So I'd favor having people roll and then everybody using the same single set. Or give a few options from the sets, removing the unacceptably lowest and highest ones.

We roll sets and the DM can force the re-roll of any number of these sets once (or twice). Lots of rolls and some balance. Players choose set. Profit.
17-07-2015 00:24:45
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
I'd like to hear the DM's opinion on this.

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
17-07-2015 00:26:33
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(17-07-2015 00:26:33)SageGenesis Wrote:  I'd like to hear the DM's opinion on this.

I'd like to be king of Italy, but we both know that isn't going to happen either.
17-07-2015 02:29:41
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JLT* Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
DM agrees with Eelco. At least, with the part where he implies that you're not going to get an opinion out of me.

At least not yet. I want to consider some of the options first. Both roads have their pros and cons, a middle road such as what Arik proposes might be a good idea, but I'm just not sure yet.

"I think I'll have seconds.."

-Chronomangor; Eater of Time. ∞
(This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 06:52:00 by JLT*.)
17-07-2015 06:51:21
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Tiamat Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
(17-07-2015 06:51:21)JLT* Wrote:  DM agrees with Eelco. At least, with the part where he implies that you're not going to get an opinion out of me.

At least not yet. I want to consider some of the options first. Both roads have their pros and cons, a middle road such as what Arik proposes might be a good idea, but I'm just not sure yet.

Tongue
17-07-2015 09:09:49
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SageGenesis Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Speaking of random rolls, it occurred to me that there's another way to do chargen in this game: rolling for almost everything.

There's 9 races, 12 classes, and 13 backgrounds. So grab a d10, a d12, and a d20 and be prepared to reroll numbers that are too high and you should come up with some interesting combination that perhaps you hadn't considered before.

I'll run some examples and hope to come up with good combinations.

Example 1
4: Human
9: Rogue
7: Hermit

The hermit is an interesting twist. Perhaps someone was exiled for his crimes and forced to live in the wilderness? Now on the path of good to make amends? Or perhaps this is the crown prince who was secretly brought to some old couple out in the woods when he was a baby and the kingdom fell to a usurper. Now he's come of age and is ready to fight a secret war against monsters and tyrants, the enemies without and within of the kingdom that should be his.


Example 2
9: Tiefling
12: Wizard
3: Criminal

Is she a witch and dabbler in the black arts? A vicious crime lord (the godmother?) who realized that magic makes for a great tool in one's criminal arsenal? A common little thief who accidentally stumbled upon a wizard's spellbook and started training herself?


Example 3
6: Gnome
1: Barbarian
12: Soldier

Uh... what?
No hang on, I've got it. He's a Redcap. A half-sane little monster in the armies of some unseelie court who knows only cages and battlefields. He was imprisoned by his own liege together with the rest of his unsavory kind and only unleashed for battle. Now he's somehow stumbled into the real world and met someone who was nice to him, "Lilo & Stitch" style.


Example 4
4: Elf
7: Paladin
6: Guild Artisan

Maybe an actual Masonic knight? Part of some order that grew out of the preposterously rich high elf architect guild? Hey, those fairy spires don't build themselves you know? Oh, hang on, there's a nature-paladin subclass in fifth. So this could be an elven woodcarver and tree-shaper who makes things out of living wood. But then one day orcs started lumbering and razing his homeland so now he must take up the sword and go all Captain Planet on the forces of evil.


Example 5
5: Dragonborn
4: Druid
8: Noble

Ok seriously?

Wait no I got it. Green dragons are connected to forests so there could be a whole forested city-state of green-ancestored dragonborn out there. And their nobility is so closely connected to their sylvan ancestor that they wield primal power over the natural world itself. (So a Circle of the Land Druid subclass that chose Forest as their type.)




Ok, I posted this mostly as a joke, but now the idea is actually growing on me. These character concepts are really rather good.


Edit:
Man, this could actually be a pretty ok adventuring party.
The forest-paladin and the druid joined forces because they live in the same giant forest that's now threatened by orcs. The prince in exile joins up with the druid because the druid has been banished by his (evil) draconic relatives in some sort of successor war business. You help me get back my kingdom, I'll help you get back your kingdom. The young tiefling wizard grew up in the capital of the prince's kingdom and she was also kicked out for being a freak and a thief. Out in the wilds she met the Redcap and wasn't frightened due to his appearance - her own is just as bad so she looks beyond the surface. And now these five are on a quest to reclaim their homes, save three kingdoms, and thwart some orc lumberjacks. But why are the orcs gathering so much lumber in the first place...?

What you need to understand about the apocalypse is that you aren't Mad Max. You're part of the skull pyramid in the background.
19-07-2015 14:32:34
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JLT* Offline
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
I actually like it. I do feel that this is something for more experienced 5th players, tho.

But hey, if we can get full consensus on this one, why not.

"I think I'll have seconds.."

-Chronomangor; Eater of Time. ∞
21-07-2015 07:31:31
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Ik vind het ook wel een leuk idee. Kan er wel in meegaan.
21-07-2015 09:20:02
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RE: Ye Schoole of Olde: AD&D Adventurers
Sure, op voorwaarde dat je, zeg, 3 sets gooit (ability scores + race/class/background) - so you can either be the elven rogue, which is close to what you wanted to play, but with crappy scores, or the gnome fighter with 4 18s.
21-07-2015 10:08:37
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